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Researchers Is Not Sure About Vaping-Related Illnesses

Will New Regulations Open the Doors for Big Tobacco in Canada


>> Mark: I'm Mark Kelley.
>> These laboratory lungs
are the testing ground in
a multibillion dollar battle.
To build a safer cigarette.
And at the heart of it,
big tobacco.
>> This is the residue that's
left from the traditional
tobacco cigarette.
This is the residue left from
the e-cigarette.
Old cigarette.
New cigarette.
>> Mark: But can the people
who hooked us be trusted
to help us?
>> Are you telling me that
Imperial Tobacco is pro-health?
>> It's 8:00 A.M. and this guy
has a busy day ahead of him.
First he has to go save
someone's life and then go up
against the law.
>> Very extensively
damaged arteries.
>> Mark: This heart surgeon has
to undo the damage of his
patient's addiction.
He smoked a pack a day
for 40 years.
>> He quit smoking but damage
has been done.
>> Mark: And the damage
is extreme.
His lungs are like a coalminers.
>> Almost all heavy smokers have
carbon buildup in the lungs,
that's the blackness
in the lungs.
>> Mark: Dr. Gopal Ghatnagar
says enough is enough.
>> Society has been concerned
about health care, its alot
cheaper to avoid disease than
it is to treat it.
>> Mark: So to try to prevent
more death and disease
from smoking, the good doctor
is now breaking bad.
He opened this vape shop
selling electronic cigarettes.
>> Doctor, here's what I
don't understand, how does
a surgeon end up in the
business of owning and running
a vape store?
>> Well I've seen the harm that
cigarette smoking has causes
and the incredible difficulty
people have trying getting off.
Even after heart surgery people
can't get off cigarettes.
>> You think vaping is the
solution to get people
off cigarettes?
>> For me a solution created by
smokers for themselves because
the medical paradigm has failed.
We have --
>> Mark: This is what they want.
Giving people what they want
inside this store here.
>> They want desperately
to get off cigarettes.
>> Mark: So what's the catch?
Well he's selling something
that's considered illegal.
E-cigarettes that
contain nicotine.
They're not approved
by Health Canada,
prohibited by sale.
>> Smokers are people,
members of the society,
they are my patients.
They are family,
friend and neighbours.
We can't vilify them and say
quit or die.
>> Mark: Instead of quit or
die, smokers are being given
a new option.
And these people are on the
front lines of it.
>> How are you doing?
>> Pretty good, you?
>> Mark: A mass movement
aimed at breaking free from
a deadly addiction.
>> Mark: My name is Mark.
Is my introduction into the
world of vaping.
Bye-bye, vape tobacco.
These people have managed to
made the switch to e-cigarettes.
They are not smokers,
they are vapours.
>> It's really smokers trying
to get them to quit.
>> Mark: E-cigs are winning
over more and more converts
every day.
>> Want to try?
>> Mark: Sure.
I've never done this before.
What am I doing?
>> Push the button and inhale.
>> Mark: Zero nicotine.
>> Mark: I'm not a smoker but
I'm ready to do my homework
on this.
Tastes like bubble gum.
>> It's a device for smokers
to quit burning products
into their lungs.
>> Mark: So it's good for you?
>> No, it is better
than smoking.
It's been around for 10 years.
I mean nobody has died from it.
>> Mark: Nobody has died
from it?
Well that's a claim Big Tobacco
can't make about cigarettes
and that's the point.
>> Think of it like this,
I'm a personal trainer and
I smoke this.
>> Mark: Were you smoking
cigarettes before?
>> Seven years.
>> Mark: How long have you
been vaping?
>> A year and a half now.
>> Mark: Is this helping you
get off the cigarettes?
>> Ever since I started this,
I was done.
>> Mark: In Canada alone, the
e-cigs business is worth $235
million and their big seller,
products with nicotine aren't
even supposed to be
for sale here.
>> Cold turkey.
I guess that's the
message here.
>> Mark: But this band of merry
lawbreakers isn't just peddling
a smoking sensation device,
what their really selling
is hope.
>> Tabacco was killing me.
This is the only product
that saved my life.
>> Mark: And maybe it's winning
over so many smokers because
e-cigs were designed by smokers.
So who came up with the idea?
Well it was this Chinese
pharmacist and heavy smoker
named Hon Lik.
His dad died of lung cancer,
so desperate to quit back in
2003, Hon Lik dreamt up
a cigarette device called Ruyan
meaning like smoke.
His invention sparked
an e-revolution.
Take a look at the TV adds.
>> You know what the most
amazing thing about this
cigarette is?
♪ It feels like the first time ♪
It isn't one.
>> Mark: With small start-ups
taking on the tobacco giant.
>> Cigarettes, you've met
your match.
>> Mark: As a commodity e-cigs
are both hot and cool.
>> The electronic cigarette.
>> Mark: And nothing cooler
than late night talk shows.
>> A bejewelled bottom.
>> Mark: And getting the pop
culture seal of approval.
>> Willie, you know you can't
play that torture trumpet
to kid.
>> I'll use it to vape then.
>> Mark: Well, there's a better
way than bagpipes.
E-cigs come in different shapes
and sizes.
Add a flavoured liquid to the
device with or without nicotine.
Puffing on it triggers a heater
that converts the liquid into
pillows of vapour.
Starter kits cost about $50.
E-juice sells for roughly $20
a bottle with tantalizing tastes
like apple-licious and sex
on the peach.
What the cigarette doesn't have,
there's no combustion,
no tobacco and none of those
killer carcinogens that are
created when you combine
the two.
>> Hot chocolate?
>> Sure.
>> Mark: And why some people see
them as the future of smoking.
>> You ready?
Buckle up, butter cup.
>> Mark: People like
Jenn Schywalsky.
She started smoking when
she was a teen.
>> My children had been on me
for years to quit.
>> Mark: But Jenn couldn't
break free.
>> I was addicted to it.
So my body needed
the cigarettes.
Something I didn't have
control over.
>> Mark: She discovered vaping
and now sees e-cigs
as her emancipation.
>> Hey!
Mwah.
>> You quit smoking, right?
>> Yeah.
>> You've done a lot of things
this year, in one year.
>> Mark: And it was quite
the year.
Cancer killed Jenn's husband.
She knew she had to kick the
habit and save herself.
>> And I looked out my front
window and there were my kids.
Whose husband -- whose dad just
died from cancer and there was
their mom sitting in the
driveway using something that
is known to cause cancer,
and I hated myself.
I felt sick to my stomach.
I couldn't believe I was doing
it to them not just myself.
And I said never, ever,
ever again.
They'll kill you plain and
simple, they will kill you.
>> Mark: It's an easy habit to
hate, but a hard one to break.
Canadians spend at least $10
billion a year on cigarettes,
and each year,
the healthcare cost to us all
about $5 billion.
The man I'm on the way to meet
says the battle against big
tobacco has not been won,
not yet.
Yes, all the taxes, health
warnings and bans have helped
lower the number of smokers,
but every year about 37,000
Canadians will die for a smoke.
What do you think the legacy
is of big tobacco?
>> The legacy is death.
You know, people think about
smoking as yesterday's issue,
but it's still one of the
leading causes of death.
Most people don't realize more
women in Canada die from lung
cancer from smoking than from
breast cancer.
I always describe it as one
of the biggest public health
achievements in terms of the
reduction in smoking but also
one of our most enduring
public health failures because
we still have 5 million people
smoking in Canada.
>> Mark: So could the
e-cigarette help those
5 million smokers?
>> Make clouds, not war.
>> Mark: Is this the new
Marlboro country?
>> Do you think vaping is going
to put cigarette smoking out
of business?
>> I hope so.
>> I lost an aunt due
to lung cancer.
Like a revolution, man, against
these corporate cats
you know what I'm saying?
>> Mark: Bad news, guys.
Those corporate cats are
on to you.
>> A sweet smell in the air.
I think it's the smell of money.
>> Mark: Big tobacco is not
trying to crush the industry,
it's trying to crash the party.
>> Now the market for
electronic cigarettes is
smoking hot.
>> Analystists put the vaping
industry at 2.5 billion.
>> 3 billion to 5 billion over
the next 3-5 years.
>> Mark: Big tobacco has big
plans to grow the e-cigs
business.
So I'm heading to England
for a rare look inside one
of the world's biggest
cigarette makers.
>> It's top secret.
>> Mark: As big tobacco
strikes back.
>> If we are part of the
problem, then we should be part
of the solution.
>> There's always more to our
stories, you can see it all on
our YouTube channel.
Full episodes and special
features that take you
deep inside.
>> And this could save my life
if I were a smoker.
All at:
[ ♪ ]
>> Mark: In many ways,
smoking seems to be so
dangerously outdated.
Who still smokes?
Well about 1 billion people
around the world, that's who.
That's a billion lives
in the crosshairs.
How did we get here?
♪ Light up a lucky ♪
♪ It's light up time ♪
>> Mark: Big tobacco started
building the foundation
decades ago.
Back in the old days, the TV
ads didn't say anything about
the risks of smoking.
>> Have a Camel with
your coffee.
>> Mark: Far from it.
>> Yes, folks, the pleasing
mildness of a Camel is just as
enjoyable to a doctor as
it is you or me.
>> Mark: Dangerous?
No, they suggested smoking was
good for you.
>> More doctors smoke Camels
than any other cigarettes.
>> Mark: That was then,
the golden age of
cigarette advertising.
Hire a few celebrities,
add a dash of product placement
in pop culture.
>> Take a Winston break.
>> That's it.
Winston has that filter.
>> Mark: And make smoking
the choice of strong
liberated women.
♪ A long way baby ♪
♪ To get where you got today ♪
>> Mark: Yep, smoking was
all about freedom.
>> Marlboro country.
>> Mark: The Marlboro man and
all of his friends were banned
from TV starting in the 70s.
And seemed like big tobacco was
being beaten into a retreat.
But are cigarette companies
getting a second wind?
I'm on my way to England
to find out.
>> Please note, this is
a non-smoking flight
as Air Canada also prohibits
the use of e-cigarettes.
>> Mark: A country where the
number of smokers has now
dropped to an all time low.
And where almost 3 million
people now vape.
I'm going to meet a scientist
with a graphic warning why
even more people should
quit smoking.
>> I want you to explain
this to me.
What are we looking at here?
>> This is a representation
of the 100 odd toxins that you
find in cigarette smoke.
>> Mark: David O'reilly has been
researching smoking
for two decades.
>> These are the toxins that
burning tobacco produces.
>> Mark: This chart lists
dozens and dozens of dangerous
toxins found in cigarettes.
Like benzene, hydrogen cyanide,
ammonia, cadmium, isoprene.
It's a variable circle of death
and you never guess where it is,
on the floor of British American
Tobacco, the world's second
bigger cigarette maker.
>> It's distrubing to see this,
and I wonder why you as a
tobacco company puts this here.
>> This is a reminder of reality
and why it's on the floor.
This is what we have
to deal with.
>> Mark: As smokers switch
to e-cigarettes, British
American Tobacco has a choice,
let the parade pass them by
or join in.
>> Everybody whose working
in here is working on developing
these new products.
>> Mark: B.A.T. joined in,
vape time.
It's the first tobacco company
to release an e-cigs
in the U.K.
>> This is top secret.
This is where a lot of the next
generation and
businessmen created.
>> Mark: And that's just
the start.
>> Here we are in the lab.
>> Mark: Sure the company still
sells billions of cigarettes
and more than 180 countries.
>> This is the new generation.
>> This is the new generation.
All happening here.
>> Mark: But now investing $800
million in what it calls
tobacco harm reduction.
But will it reduce harm or just
keep smokers hooked on
a cleaner nicotine
delivery device?
>> The machine will take
regular puffs at a certain
volume and duration
at regular moments.
>> Mark: One puff at a time,
it's old tobacco versus
new technology.
This machine simulates what
goes into your lungs when
you smoke.
>> This is fascinating looking
at these two samples here.
>> Yes, this one is generated
from a cigarette and you can
see this brand tar, this is
from one of our next generation
vapour products and you can
see it's clean.
>> Mark: Staggering.
>> When you take away
combustion this is what
you get.
>> Mark: The dirty truth
of cigarettes revealed.
This is the residue that's left
from the traditional
tobacco cigarette.
This is the residue left from
the e-cigarette.
Old cigarette.
New cigarette.
Seems B.A.T. is trying to turn
over a new tobacco leaf using
the cleaner e-cigs in a bid
to rebrand the reputation.
But hold on.
Isn't this the same company
with the circle of death
on its floor?
>> When you've got this here
and it's quite graphic, it just
questions why are you still
making the cigarettes?
Last year British American
tobacco manufactured 600 billion
cigarettes when you know about
all the dangers in them?
>> We've been a cigarette
company for more than 100
years, and it's a legal product,
we continue to sell it.
>> Mark: I know it's legal.
You've shown us safer
alternatives to smoking and
yet you're still producing
a product that has all these
toxicants in them?
>> The health risks to smoking
cigarettes are well known,
Every cigarette pack carries
a health warning.
And I think consumers understand
the risks that they are taking
by smoking cigarettes.
>> Mark: If you cared about
harm reduction for the public,
you would stop selling
a product that contains
all these known toxicants.
>> I don't think
that's realistic.
We do care about harm reduction.
If we are part of the problem,
as people see it, then we should
be part of the solution.
>> Mark: Do you believe
nicotine is not addictive?
>> I believe nicotine is not
addictive, yes.
>> Mark: You know why it's not
always easy to trust tobacco
executives when they say they
care about harm reduction?
>> I don't believe nicotine
products are addictive.
>> They are not addictive.
>> Mark: Because for decades
they misled the public about the
dangers of smoking, that's why.
>> I believe nicotine
is not addictive.
>> And I, too, believe nicotine
is not addictive.
>> Mark: So can we really
believe they are in the
business of saving lives?
>> You seem to be playing both
sides of the street here.
You want to be part of the
solution but you are part of
the problem in a massive way.
Do you accept
that responsibility?
>> We accept that
responsibility, that's why
we are investing heavily in the
research and development
of safer tobacco and nicotine
alternatives and we want
to offer those safer choices.
>> Mark: But you've seen
yourself, the old tobacco
executives who sat around and
said smoking isn't addictive
and smoking isn't dangerous.
You've seen the history.
How do you deal with that now?
>> All I can say is judge us on
our actions today.
I can't change the past,
I wasn't there in the past,
I don't want to account for it.
What I want is that people
look at me in my generation
in 10, 30 years and say, yeah,
those guys did the right thing.
>> Mark: This is an ad for
B.A.T. e-cigarette.
Maybe they haven't come
a long way, baby.
Addictive?
Nah, look at these young,
healthy people.
Vapeing it seems is all
about freedom.
>> Pure satisfaction
for smokers.
Vyp e-cigarettes.
>> Mark: Sound familiar?
Seems like a new Marlboro
man in town.
>> I've been a smoker
for 20 years.
I just found a smarter
alternative.
BLU e-cigarettes.
>> Mark: In the U.S. big tobacco
companies are back
on the airwaves.
>> We are all adults here.
Time to take our freedom back.
Come on, guys.
Rise from the ashes.
>> Mark: Because ad bans don't
apply to e-cigarettes.
Welcome back celebrity
endorsement.
>> I'm Jenny McCarthy and
I finally found a smarter
alternative to cigarettes.
>> Mark: Welcome back
product placement.
>> It's not a real cigarette.
Yeah.
[ ♪ ]
>> Mark: Welcome back strong
smoking women.
[ ♪ ]
>> Welcome back big tobacco.
Tobacco companies aren't in the
e-cigs business in Canada yet,
so what's in store for us?
>> Canada right now is people
talk about wild west.
A natural experiment
in public health.
>> Mark: As Health Canada
considers regulating
e-cigarettes, lives are hanging
in the balance.
>> I don't believe many
Canadians out there that want
to keep smoking.
I think if they were
given a way to quit,
they probably would.
>> Next week on "The Fifth
Estate," I'm Nahlah Ayed,
on a rescue ship in the
Mediterranean moved by rising
deaths at sea, constant watch
on the met.
Even as opposition grows, this
single vessel saves thousands
fleeing poverty and war from
certain death and delivers them
to Europe.
A desperate passage,
next week on "The Fifth Estate."
>> Mark: New music from
DJ Snake.
Let's talk.
This is Z 103.5 all the hits.
This is the Scott and Kat show.
>> Mark: As a radio morning man,
Scott Fox takes great pleasure
in other people's problems.
>> PEL police has issued a
stern warning to a Mississauga
teen who called 9-1-1 because
her parents forced her to go to
the cottage with them.
>> Is she getting charged
for that?
>> No.
>> Mark: But Scott's got his own
struggles, he's a smoker.
And he's well aware it could
be slowly killing him.
>> I will be back.
I'm going to have
a quick cigarette.
>> I started smoking when
I was 16.
I was a DJ in nightclubs and
that was sort of what
everybody did.
We're technically not allowed
to smoke out here.
You have to go out behind the
building, but I -- well, nobody
is here this early
in the morning.
So whatever.
>> Mark: A pack a day smoker,
today he'll trade in his sigs
for an e-cigs.
>> I have friends who used to
smoke and switched to vaping.
And they say: you got to try it.
It's great.
I would like to think this is
going to be my last cigarette.
Hopefully this is the
last cigarette.
>> Mark: In the public health
battle to stop smoking in
Canada, Scott is the guy they
are fighting over.
>> Back to work.
>> Mark: But Scott's strategy to
quit smoking is opposed by none
other than Health Canada.
The federal agency banned
the sale of nicotine
e-cigs back in 2009.
So cancer-causing cigarettes?
Legal.
But e-cigs with nicotine,
illegal.
So far that's kept big tobacco
out of the market.
But it's put small players like
Dr. Gopal Ghatnagar on Health
Canada's radar.
I want to ask you about this.
This has nicotine in it.
>> Yep.
>> Mark: Legal in Canada?
>> Nicotine is a grey zone
as far as Health Canada
is concerned.
>> Mark: Health Canada hasn't
approved this.
Health Canada hasn't
proved this.
>> Health Canada has not
approved any of these products.
>> So why does he keep selling
these products?
Because the heart surgeon
says switching smokers
will save lives.
>> There's no doubt that
combustible tobacco use vis
a vis smoking is the number
one cause of lung cancer.
Can you imagine if we cut half
the number of smokers, you can
literally half the number
of lung cancers.
>> Mark: Do you believe you can?
>> I believe we can.
I believe we need the support
of motivated public health
authorities to get a true
message out.
When they send mixed messages,
existing smokers continue
to smoke.
>> Mark: Just around the corner
from his vape shop is Public
Health Ontario.
Only a few blocks away,
but miles apart on this issue.
Not far from here there's a vape
shop and very popular in terms
of attracting people.
Ween them off the cigarettes.
Isn't that a step forward from
a public health perspective?
>> The first assumption is ween
them off the cigarettes.
Many people who vape also
use cigarettes.
They are still addicted
to nicotine.
>> Mark: Would you support the
notion that e-cigarettes are
safer than cigarettes?
>> It's too early to say.
First of all we simply do not
know how safe or dangerous
they are.
>> Mark: But that doesn't make
them dangerous.
>> What does mean is it would
be wise to be very cautious
until studies have been done
over quite a period of time.
>> Mark: Person after person,
testimony after testimony say
this got me off cigarettes.
I never felt better.
This has been great for my
health, this has been the best
thing and the best thing
to help me stop
smoking cigarettes.
Why not endorse something
like that?
>> Well, you know, though,
the anecdote is not the basis
for good science or good
public policy.
Nicotine is one of the most
addictive substances known
to man.
And if you can get a whole new
generation of young people
addicted to nicotine, that's
extremely dangerous.
>> Mark: You only have to look
to the states to see what
he's worried about.
Take a look at the way this
tobacco company markets
its e-cigs.
As cigarette sales decline,
could it be they are looking
for replacement smokers?
So sponsor a music festival or
two, plaster your brand on
Instagram and Facebook.
>> Always embody freedom
and a certain amount
of innovation.
>> Mark: Offer sweet and
fruity flavours.
Sounds pretty enticing, right?
And that could be why Health
Canada is spooked.
>> An Alberta father is calling
for better regulations and a ban
on the sale of e-cigarettes.
>> Mark: E-cigs are making news
and not in a good way.
>> A new warning this morning
that e-cigerttes may not be
as safe --
>> Mark: There's also the
arugment that because vaping
looks like smoking,
e-cigs could help renormalize
the deadly habit.
>> Now I know there's a lot of
theories about this --
>> Mark: It's doctor
versus doctor.
>> The health effects would be
very similar to drinking coffee.
>> Mark: Study versus study.
What's your view
of the e-cigarette?
>> I don't know.
I can't think of anything that
has split the public health
committee much the same
as e-cigarettes.
On the one hand the Holy Grail
for smokers.
The product that will help those
5 million smokers to quit
and to get off inhaling smoke.
On the other hand it's the evil
plot of the tobacco industry
and a way of recruit more people
and transition them to smokers.
>> Mark: The folks in public
health may be split on e-cigs
but Scott is not.
He's in.
>> Show you how it works.
>> Okay.
>> So this is what you
do aestheticly be very similar
to a cigarette?
To start you should try it
without any nicotine to get
a feel for what it will be like.
>> You can actually start in
reverse and start with nicotine
and work it back.
>> Yes.
>> Try it out?
>> Give it a shot.
>> I don't believe many
Canadians out there that want
to keep smoking.
>> It takes getting used to.
Holy cow.
>> It definitely does.
>> If they were given a way to
quit, they probably would.
>> Mark: Smokers like Scott
make the switch to e-cigs with
nicotine, Health Canada remains
firmly on the fence.
Over in England it's an
entirely different story.
Despite the concerns, e-cigs
are being promoted as a tool
to save lives, no if's,
and's or but's.
Public Health England, an arm of
the British government,
released a report stating with
certainty e-cigarettes are 95%
safer than smokes.
>> Good news for
e-cigs smokers.
>> A review found 95% less
harmful than tobacco.
>> New regulated framework for
vaping devices --
>> Public Health England --
>> Mark: And they went a bold
step further suggesting some
e-cigs should be prescribed
and paid for by their
health care system.
>> Today their own health watch
dog, Public Health England
called for GPs to be given the
right to prescribe them.
>> Mark: It was a bomb
shell declaration.
And this woman helped
light the fuse.
Do you think this could be the
biggest single invention to help
smokers stop smoking?
>> Yes I do, because they came
out of smokers themselves.
I have not seen this phenomenon
in all my 30 years of working
in tobacco control, in terms of
their interest by smokers.
>> Mark: McNeil's report was
attacked by anti-tobacco groups.
Why?
For promoting a product that
contains nicotine,
which continues this cycle
of addiction.
Why would public health
officials accuse you of doing
something that was actually
wasn't going to hurt the
public's health?
>> Not everybody in public
health accepts nicotine could
be part of the solution rather
than the problem.
And in my view, people smoke
for the nicotine but die from
the tar, we know that nicotine
isn't the harmful substance
in smoking.
>> Mark: And that kind
of support has helped
fire up e-cigs sales.
Visit a small town like
Eastleigh, and you can't help
but notice one of the busiest
shops on market street is the
vape shop.
The owner Alan smoked
for years.
Nothing helped him quit
except vaping.
Tell me about that time, if you
remember it, when you had,
you sat down and had your
first vape.
What impact has it had on you?
>> It was liberating, actually.
I would say.
>> Mark: Alan quit smoking then
quit his job and opened
Anglo Vapour.
He hasn't touched a cigarette
in five years.
>> Any idea what you might like?
>> There's loads of flavours.
There are some a bit
like tobacco.
You can have a puff if you like.
>> Mark: Now life long smokers
are showing up with
a simple request.
Help.
People like Pat.
She switched to vaping about
three years ago.
>> See a lot of people vaping
and 20 years old, it tends to be
a hip thing.
And you look a little over late
20s, 30s.
>> Yes, I would say so,
57, actually.
No, 74.
>> Mark: 74?
>> Where did I get the 57 from
I don't know.
>> Mark: 57 years of smoking.
>> Exactly.
But I still love the smell
of it.
It's naughty but nice.
I'll never have another
cigarette.
>> Mark: And with more smokers
making the switch, British
American tobacco jumped
at this opportunity.
>> The world health
organization estimates
currently 1 billion smokers.
>> Mark: Hitching the wagon
to Public Health England's harm
reduction campaign.
>> Despite the well-known
health risks and pressure to
quit, millions of adults choose
to smoke.
>> Mark: B.A.T. released a
cooperate video that
makes this anti-tabacco
crusader squirm.
>> We welcome the opportunity
to collaborate on making the
concept of tobacco harm
reduction a reality.
>> Mark: After years of fighting
big tobacco as you had,
now on the same side of this.
>> I'll never be on the same
side as tobacco companies.
The more I take offence of what
they said.
Smoke is very quickly become
addicted and depended it's not
a choice, it's an addiction.
>> Mark: But like it or not and
clearly she doesn't, Public
Health England and B.A.T.
agree e-cigarettes are safer
for smokers.
>> Do you see big tobacco as
part of the solution?
>> Sadly, yes.
>> Mark: Why sadly?
>> Because they caused the
harm, and yes, I rather they go
out of business but sadly
that's not going to happen.
>> Mark: What would your advice
by for Canadian public health
officials looking at
this debate?
>> To me it seems unethical
to prohibit nicotine and
e-cigarettes and leave tobacco
cigarettes on the market.
We should be allowing people
who are addicted to nicotine
to get that nicotine in the
least harmful way possible.
>> Mark: Stuck between a smoke
and a hard place, Health Canada
now says it is poised to change
the rules around the sale of
e-cigarettes and
Canada's largest tobacco
company is ready to pounce.
Are you telling me that
Imperial Tobacco is pro-health?
>> Mark: It's tough to walk the
streets of any Canadian city
and not spot a vape shop
selling e-cigarettes.
The sign says no smoking.
Vapeing only.
The first store opened
in Canada in 2010.
Since then more than 600
of them have popped up across
the country.
Even though Health Canada
does not approve the sale
of e-cigarettes with nicotine.
>> In Canada right now, people
talk about the wild west.
It's a natural experiment
in public health and the
government standpoint hear
no evil, see no evil.
>> Mark: A new sheriff riding
into the wild west.
The Liberal government says it
will soon table new rules,
to regulate the e-cig industry.
No details yet, just a vague
promise to protect kids
from nicotine and keep up the
fight against big tobacco.
But here's the twist, by making
nicotine e-cigs legal, the door
could be open for big tobacco
to get into the game.
The company behind some
of Canada's most popular
cigarette brands wants in.
Montreal's Imperial Tobacco
hopes to follow in the
footsteps of the parent company
British American tobacco.
>> What would Imperial Tobacco
like to do in Canada?
Would you like to manufacture,
be able to market e-cigarettes?
>> The objective would be
to provide the consumers with
a different less harmful product
they could then choose and
hopefully move away from
the cigarette industry.
You know?
I have two kids.
I don't want my kids to smoke.
To be honest, we support
reasonable and evidence
regulation especially the ones
aimed at keeping tobacco
products out of the hands
of kids.
>> Mark: Are you telling me
Imperial Tobacco is pro health?
>> What I'm telling you is our
objective is to put on the
market less harmful product
for consumers that want
to stop smoking.
We will continue to put out
cigarettes, that's what we do.
>> Mark: But you
sell cigarettes.
Why --
>> Well, the same reason why
Coke has diet Coke and water.
With that thinking, there's no
way Coke could sell water but
no way McDonald's could
sell a salad.
Why are we not allowed to sell
a less harmful product?
>> Mark: But anything big
tobacco touches puts the
guardians of public health
on high alert.
>> You know, to me it's not
about big tobacco
or little tobacco but
a conflict-of-interest.
Let's be clear the tobacco
company's main interest isn't
selling cigarettes.
That is where they continue
to make very large profits.
A moral issue for me is that is
where the interest lie and
I don't think you want someone
like that being a stakeholder
in terms of how other nicotine
products should be sold
in Canada.
>> Mark: But it may be a moral
issue for Health Canada.
After decades of fighting with
tobacco companies, could the
two sides work together to get
smokers to switch?
>> When you go to the
government and you say Health
Canada, get your act together.
We want to be able to sell
cigarettes, what do they say
back to you?
>> Just to be clear, it's not
like we have access to Health
Canada or Health Minister.
>> You can't pick up the phone?
>> No, unfortunately.
We know that the anti-tobacco
lobbyists have an opportunity
to talk to them on
many occasions.
We don't have
those possibilities.
We are part of the solution and
not the problem but don't have
the ability to have
those discussions.
>> Mark: Because they don't
trust you.
>> At the end of the day,
what's the end goal
of Health Canada?
If it's to reduce smoking rate
and have a positive impact on
public health, that's what they
should be concerned about.
If a tobacco company could
contribute to that they
should be open to have
that dialogue.
[ ♪ ]
>> Mark: At this street festival
of Canadian Ejuice makers,
these smoker turned vapours
want to be heard.
>> Five months I quit smoking.
Enough is enough.
>> Mark: They hope Health
Canada will follow England's
lead and embrace e-cigarettes
as a powerful tool to fight
a deadly addiction.
>> Hi, how are you?
Oh, my goodness.
>> Mark: Jenn Schywalsky whose
husband the smoker died from
cancer is adding her name
to the list of survivors.
>> I quit smoking because the
evening April 28, 2015 and I
have not had a cigarette since.
>> We are all fighting for the
same thing -- that is to live.
That is to get off the smoking.
>> Mark: She hopes because
e-cigarettes contain nicotine,
Health Canada won't continue
to tar them with the same brush
as cigarettes.
>> 42 years smoker,
two years vapour.
Granmas vape.
>> We quit smoking May 1, 2016.
>> Whoo!
[ ♪ ]
>> Always so much more to our
stories and now we've dedicated
a place to see all things
"The Fifth Estate."
On the new YouTube channel
watch full episodes, special
features and maybe find
a surprise or two.
>> It's market day here in this
camp in northern Ethiopia.
While we were doing an
interview over there, our driver
decided to take advantage
of the fact it's market day to
pick something up and put it in
our equipment van here because
he couldn't resist
a good bargain.
Or should I say a baa-gain.
On our new YouTube channel
the first nicotine inhaler
to receive a medical licence.
>> New electronics and battery.
It works with pressurized
liquid inside.
>> Give it a go.
There we go.
See how it lights up?
>> I got it.
[chuckles]
>> Mark: A shot, a cold shot.
That cold shot I got
a nicotine hit.
>> Yeah.
First medically
approved cigarette.
>> Mark: For that full feature
and more, go to our
YouTube channel at
YouTube.com/cbcfifth.
Subscribe to keep up to date
with "The Fifth Estate."
Now here's a look at a few
stories we are working on.
>> What the hell is that?
>> Mark: The video that shocked
the country shared around
the world.
>> Please don't tell me my
boyfriend went like that.
>> Mark: Political fodder for
an ugly presidential campaign.
>> I am the law and
order candidate.
[ Cheering ]
>> Mark: Police body cameras
are now seen as a way
to curb the killing and
police the police.
>> Get on the ground now!
>> These things have been
happening to black people
for a century.
The only difference is now
we are recording them
for the world to see.
>> Mark: Can the cameras
distort the picture?
Is this man resisting arrest?
Take a look at the same incident
from a different perspective.
Our body cam is giving us
a different angle on
a broken relationship.
>> No, no, no.
>> I'm skeptical of any claim
a particular tool is a solution
to a problem as big
as police accountability or
police/community relations.
>> On board the Topaz Responder
on the Mediterranean Sea.
>> Every day rescue workers
patrol off the coast of Libya
searching for asylum seekers put
to sea by smugglers, otherwise
doomed to die.
They save thousands in
a staggering crisis usually
measured in the millions.
>> We are here to
preserve life.
I don't think anyone thinks
this is the solution.
It can't be.
>> Risking it all in a desperate
passage of final hope.
>> You don't know where
you are going.
You do don't know if you're
going to get there safely.
Anything can happen.
>> How many persons?
20?
We've got to throw a rope
in the bank.
And a rope in the back.
>> Yes.
>> And tie the front.
>> And somebody tie the front.
Only one person.
>> No problem.
>> Nothing compares to the pain
that my sister must have
endured when she was stabbed
to death.
>> This is new information
I didn't have until
30 seconds ago.
>> He doesn't answer.
Do you have a profile?
>> I thought oh, my god.
Oh, my god.
>> They will believe that maybe
Charles Manson might have
had something to do with
the rape/murder.
>> Only a couple of months
before Sharon Tate was killed
and she looks so much like
Sharon Tate.
>> Like a ghost.
Everyone has heard about him,
no one has actually seen him.
>> And I looked and oh, my god.
That is her.

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